Foro - Goku Ability Discussion

> In regards to the Disease Resistance.

Saiyans and humans are very similar. Otherwise they would not be able to reproduce with each other. And the Extinction Bomb has been used on other alien species in the past. Jaco talks about it in a very decisive way, treating it like what it is, showing that the saiyans being able to survive it is an anomaly.

A resistance is not an immunity so Goku dying to the heart virus is not an anti-feat nor a contradiction for the resistance itself. We might need to work on our Disease Manip. page to be more specific but yes, we do take into consideration how bacteria and viruses work against the body and DNA.

What also needs to be fixed is the "kills all life" part because that's not specified. Or at least it's not going by the translation.

>Paralysis

Fair, will fix it properly once the thread is done.

>Illusion

This is specified in Moro's page (but I haven't added the links yet) but Moro's illusions do emit a Ki signature, because they can be tracked by Instant Transmission (Ch. 49) even if Moro is somewhere else. Goku is overcoming the fake Ki signature and attacking the real Moro rather than the illusion.

I'll specify that is a trick on ESP abilities like Ki Sensing too and add the explanation to make it as clear as possible.

>Hakai

Vegeta explicitly states that is a GoD move that erases mortals (Beerus used it on Zamasu but that's besides the point).

The effect we see in Gas's shield is not too different from the one we see when Beerus explicitly uses Hakai on Vegeta's armor and clothes, and Goku calls it the same one (Ch. 69) he tried on Merged Zamasu but ultimately failed (Ch. 25). This last example is another portrayal of the same technique (Toyotaro was very inconsistent with it tbh). But we know it is exactly that because Beerus explains that you convert something into nothing when using it (Ch. 70), and he calls it exactly the same way Vegeta does against Gas.

The argument for the lack of an explosion on Gas's shield could be that Toyotaro simply forgot. Like I said, he has been veeeeery inconsistent with it, and considering that GoD energy doesn't look any different than regular Ki at least in the black and white manga, since the colored one does show GoD energy with a different color (Ch. 75). That last link also shows Vegeta saying that it will destroy anything it touches. The purple lighting is also shown when Granola uses GoD energy (Ch. 74).

The fact that they can push back and prevent the technique from having effect on contact and not get immediately erased is a showcase of a resistance. Otherwise they would have been blown up from the inside or turned to dust like it was happening to Merged Zamasu and how it happened to Present Zamasu (Ch. 19).

"Saiyans and humans are very similar. Otherwise they would not be able to reproduce with each other. And the Extinction Bomb has been used on other alien species in the past. Jaco talks about it in a very decisive way, treating it like what it is, showing that the saiyans being able to survive it is an anomaly.

A resistance is not an immunity so Goku dying to the heart virus is not an anti-feat nor a contradiction for the resistance itself. We might need to work on our Disease Manip. page to be more specific but yes, we do take into consideration how bacteria and viruses work against the body and DNA."

The issue with this argument is that the extinction bomb says has no effect, so it is not talking about resistances as it would say the saiyans have a resistance to the pathogen, but there is no effect whatsoever, which would imply that they aren't resisting, it's simply that they don't fall under the criteria for the extinction bomb. This is further collaborated with Trunks word for word saying "Not even a super saiyan can defeat a disease" and Vegeta not being shocked at the idea of a disease being capable of killing Goku when he wasn't even aware that he'd die to a heart disease initially and only found out about the disease upon arriving.

For it to truly be a resistance I feel it would've been noted that saiyans biology gives them some form of resistance to the disease but I do not see that anywhere noted and the one time there is a disease a saiyna themself is reaffirming that not even a saiyan can defeat a disease.

Now if it is in the case of you claiming it's a specific kind of disease manipualtion resistance then I'd suggest this be made into a wiki wide CRT on that since animals would get natural disease resistances too since dogs cannot get the common cold as I mentioned above and Goku's resistance in this case should be specified in that regard.

"This is specified in Moro's page (but I haven't added the links yet) but Moro's illusions do emit a Ki signature, because they can be tracked by Instant Transmission (Ch. 49) even if Moro is somewhere else. Goku is overcoming the fake Ki signature and attacking the real Moro rather than the illusion."
So then this doesn't sound like an illusion resistance, just that he's aware of the trick and can tell which one is the real ki signature and which one is the fake, this seems like it should be just be an upgrade to his extrasensory perception rather then an illusion resistance since he's not resisting an illusion being made he's just aware of it being fake. Using Bleach as an example, there's characters aware they're in an illusion against Aizen but that doesn't mean they resist the illusion.

>Hakai

Vegeta explicitly states that is a GoD move that erases mortals (Beerus used it on Zamasu but that's besides the point).

The effect we see in Gas's shield is not too different from the one we see when Beerus explicitly uses Hakai on Vegeta's armor and clothes, and Goku calls it the same one (Ch. 69) he tried on Merged Zamasu but ultimately failed (Ch. 25). This last example is another portrayal of the same technique (Toyotaro was very inconsistent with it tbh). But we know it is exactly that because Beerus explains that you convert something into nothing when using it (Ch. 70), and he calls it exactly the same way Vegeta does against Gas.

The argument for the lack of an explosion on Gas's shield could be that Toyotaro simply forgot. Like I said, he has been veeeeery inconsistent with it, and considering that GoD energy doesn't look any different than regular Ki at least in the black and white manga, since the colored one does show GoD energy with a different color (Ch. 75). That last link also shows Vegeta saying that it will destroy anything it touches. The purple lighting is also shown when Granola uses GoD energy (Ch. 74).

The fact that they can push back and prevent the technique from having effect on contact and not get immediately erased is a showcase of a resistance. Otherwise they would have been blown up from the inside or turned to dust like it was happening to Merged Zamasu and how it happened to Present Zamasu (Ch. 19).

I feel "Toyotaro forgot" isn't really a satisfying point to the inconcistency and is pure conjecture. On top of that too, there'd normally be a reference to him forgetting in an interview or the like. I also don't see how this would be a resistance since Vegeta threw an energy of destruction beam and Goku used a specific hand-based hakai technique, both act differently, the beam normally needs to overlap and consume to do its effects. It's already been showcased in DB you can get out of the effects of an attack if the attack doesn't overlap with you, this is how characters survive attacks that should've otherwise killed them. Zamasu himself shows this since he never resisted the hakai he was just able to quickly grab Mai in time so that it couldn't fully overlap with him.

The fact that they can push back and prevent the technique sounds more like a weakness of the technique rather then a resistance. Corrobated with the fact that the shield itself didn't get erased, just broke apart unless we want to suddenly say the shield resists EE which I feel falls under an extraordinary claim.

Extra note also: If we are accepting the "Toyotaro forgot" argument, then I think saying Goku resists would be weird since he would've "forgotten" the effect for Goku too, at best I'd see this only really working as a possible resistance and even then I'm not too on board with that.

Toriyama mentions that the extension bomb does not work against saiyans

And I agree that resistance to Illusions should go away, because it is only about identifying the illusion and not resisting it as such being an improvement to extrasensory perception

Publicado por Eldrazi Kido el 22 sep 2026 a las 21:38.

»Toriyama mentions that the extension bomb does not work against saiyans

«

I'm aware, the argument isn't that the exintion bomb doesn't work on the saiyans, the argument is of it being a disease resistance for the reasons I provided above, along with several saiyans confirming that the super saiyan transformation cannot defeat a disease and not making any implication that they resist it.

Perhaps this leads to the need to improve the disease manipulation page, but to be fair, a cardiovascular disease is not the same as a lung disease, so to speak, because well, it is not the same because they affect different areas of the body and have a very different process with the body, perhaps this is the case and if necessary, dogs will have resistance to diseases by not contracting the common cold.

Publicado por Eldrazi Kido el 22 sep 2026 a las 22:10.

»Perhaps this leads to the need to improve the disease manipulation page, but to be fair, a cardiovascular disease is not the same as a lung disease, so to speak, because well, it is not the same because they affect different areas of the body and have a very different process with the body, perhaps this is the case and if necessary, dogs will have resistance to diseases by not contracting the common cold.«

Oh also should cases like that instead be a limited Resistance?

limited Resistance work for me

>Now if it is in the case of you claiming it's a specific kind of disease manipualtion resistance then I'd suggest this be made into a wiki wide CRT on that since animals would get natural disease resistances too since dogs cannot get the common cold as I mentioned above and Goku's resistance in this case should be specified in that regard.

We do consider this some form of resistance in the same way we grant bugs like mosquitoes resistant to the pathogens they transmit.

We humans have also developed a fair amount of resistances but are still susceptible to other diseases. Some diseases even produce a response so strong that being affected once is enough to build a resistance for the rest of your life (like chickenpox or measles). Saiyans could very well be immune to that specific virus because of a resistance to that virus alone. Like I said, it's not an immunity by any means because that's the only case we're aware of that is useless against them.

>So then this doesn't sound like an illusion resistance, just that he's aware of the trick and can tell which one is the real ki signature and which one is the fake, this seems like it should be just be an upgrade to his extrasensory perception rather then an illusion resistance since he's not resisting an illusion being made he's just aware of it being fake. Using Bleach as an example, there's characters aware they're in an illusion against Aizen but that doesn't mean they resist the illusion.

That's a way of seeing it but considering he can locate Moro even though he's emitting a fake Ki Signature in his illusions I still think it should count as a very specific resistance (one that affects ESP especifically).

>The fact that they can push back and prevent the technique sounds more like a weakness of the technique rather then a resistance. Corrobated with the fact that the shield itself didn't get erased, just broke apart unless we want to suddenly say the shield resists EE which I feel falls under an extraordinary claim.

The shield is part of Gas's power kit which was completely boosted by the wish, gaining a lot of abilities that other characters have. Granola showcased this too, gaining Moro's lava control, IT and even Hakai. It's not a stretch to say the shield would get the resistance since it's part of Gas's power after all.

What do you mean by the effect for Goku? You mean the backlash he got for using the technique? He himself admitted that he messed it up (whatever that means in that context). He hasn't used it ever since and now that's part of Vegeta's kit who is training to use GoD energy whereas Goku is going for the Angel route. And Vegeta's still too green with it, being able to use it at his best when using Ultra Ego. Without it he can only destroy small things. Goku tried to erase a large target that was resisting.